Volume 19 Number 03
Produced: Tue Mar 28 7:40:12 1995
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
Kitniyot
[Ezra Dabbah]
Kitniyot Passover List
[Nechama Nouranifar]
Oat Shemurah Matzah
[Avi Feldblum]
Pesach & Cats - a question
[Jack Reiner]
Shmurah Matah
["Bob Klein"]
Siyum
[Heather Luntz]
Siyumim Erev Pesach
[Ed Bruckstein]
Siyyum and Loopholes
[Adina B. Sherer]
Siyyum and loopholes
[Yaacov Fenster]
Siyyum without minyan
[Richard Friedman]
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From: <EDABBAH@...> (Ezra Dabbah)
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 19:19:58 -0500
Subject: Kitniyot
I heard today from a very reliable Rabbi that Elite chocolate produced
in Israel with corn syrup was considered kosher for Passover even for
Ashkenazim up until the mid 1950's when the rabbanut in Israel decided
to be machmeer on may kitniyot (liquid of kitniyot).
Has anyone heard of this?
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From: Nechama Nouranifar <nournfrn@...>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 07:47:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Kitniyot Passover List
Does anyone know when the Sephardi (kitniyot) kossher for passover list
will be ready or how to get it. Last year I got it too late to be of
much help.
Thanks
Nechama Katan Nouranifar
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From: Avi Feldblum <feldblum>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 07:39:19 -0500
Subject: Oat Shemurah Matzah
I know that there are a few people that cannot eat Wheat-based products
and there is Oat shemurah matzah available. Last year someone posted
soem of the information to the list. Someone asked me if anyone has any
information on this for this year, so if you know, please post.
Avi Feldblum
<mljewish@...> or feldblum@cnj.digex.net
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From: <jjr@...> (Jack Reiner)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 12:41:10 -0600
Subject: Pesach & Cats - a question
Shalom Y'all.
I intend to ask my LOR about this, and I would value MJ'ers opinions.
The cat food that our two cats eat exclusively contains both kitniyos
and yeast. The food is in a pellet form and can used quite well with
a gravity-based, automatic feeder (similar to an automatic waterer -
since the food is small pellets, it acts essentially like a fluid).
In the past, we have used the automatic feeder for as much as ten days
without human intervention.
The question:
If we were to fill this automatic feeder with enough food for the length
of Pesach, leave it where the cats could get to it, and then declared its
chometz ownerless (or even explicitly sold this chometz), would this be
halachically acceptable?
Concerning the issue of not having chometz within sight, there is no
danger of our eating _this_ chometz (the cat food) by mistake :-).
Furthermore, we could get creative and find a place where the feeder is
out of our sight and still accessible to the little beasts.
For reasons of cost, fleas, and emotional distress to the cats, we would
prefer not to board the cats at the vet for the week.
Kol Tuv,
Yoel
<jjr@...>
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From: "Bob Klein" <KL2@...>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:26:41 EST
Subject: Shmurah Matah
Last year, we bought a 1 lb. box of Cohen-Halperin machine-made shmurah
matzoh, imported from Israel by Paskesz in Brooklyn. (I believe this is
the Paskesz Candy Co.)
The matzoh were not well-packed for a long journey and all of the ones
in our box were broken. Since shmurah matzoh are supposed to be
unbroken, we could not use them. After initially ignoring my complaint,
Paskesz later claimed that everyone packs shmurah matzoh that way.
Their attitude was quite unresponsive.
Three questions:
1. Has anyone else encountered a problem with poorly-packed shmurah
matzoh (from Cohen-Halperin or elsewhere) that was broken and unusable?
How did you address the halachic and consumer issues?
2. Is it preferable to open the box _before_ Pesach, so a new box can
be purchased in time for seder, in case the matzoh are broken?
3. Are other brands of machine-made shmurah available on the East Coast
that are well-packed, e.g. with corrugated cardboard between each piece?
I clearly recall getting these in the past.
Any feedback will be appreciated.
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From: Heather Luntz <luntz@...>
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 1995 22:26:46 +1100 (EST)
Subject: Siyum
In Vol 18 #82 Carl Sherer writes:
>
> My pre-Bar Mitzva son is on the verge of making his first siyum (on a
> seder of Mishnayos). I was wondering whether the halachic status of a
> Kattan making a siyum is any different from that of an adult.
I am glad this topic came up, I was looking for more general information
on making a siyum.
Could somebody please give me a run down on what is the halachic status of
siyum (I presume it must be more than minhag if it can overide the fast
for a bechor), what are the elements required, (a roomate of mine
seemed to think one needed meat, as she and a friend were told that they
could eat meat during the nine days on making a siyum - does anybody
know the source for this?) and in particular, is it something that
may be done or is it something that must be done? eg if a person was
learning on a desert island where there were no food/people/ whatever
else is required, would he have failed to do a positive mitzva and
would it be preferable that he not learn, say, the last portion (how
much?) of an mesechta rather than not have a siyum on a completed
mesechta, or is it just a nice thing to do, so that if a person ignored
the occasion even when it would be easy to make one that would be OK also?
And if there is a postitive obligation on a man to make a siyum, would
there be any corresponding obligation on a woman?
I suppose I should declare my interest here. The dafi yomi is heading
towards the end of Baba Basra, and that has set me wondering what my
obligations are. The truth is that I would rather *not* have a siyum, for
the simple reason that there is literally nobody here in Australia that
I could think of that I would want to invite. Neither do I particularly
want to consult my LOR unless it is really necessary. He is very
special, but I don't know how he would respond to these new fangled ideas
I picked up in America. - See I came to the daf-yomi in a very funny way.
It started when I was still living in New York, and i was dating a guy
very seriously. This guy (although he had smicha) had been out of real
learning for a while and was trying to get back into doing it on a
regular basis. So I suggested why didn't he do the daf-yomi as a way of
getting continuity. So he did, but he insisted on giving me an inyan by
inyan run down on the day's daf, (this he said made it more
real for him). And, well, torah she ba'al peh it may be, but I was
finding concentration on and taking in completely unfamiliar material
orally, not to mention finding something intelligent to say on the
subject quite a strain, so after
several weeks of this, I insisted we sit down with the text. So we were
learning it together, and when i had to come back to Australia, we were
still pretty serious, and it was supposed to be some sort of kesher
between us. So we got all these tapes from dial a daf, and although i was
pretty sceptical about getting anything out of it (or being able to make
any kind of go of it at all), I allowed myself to be persuaded to give it a
try. So i established a routine of doing it on the way to and from work,
and if I had questions we were in contact by email.
And then - well, he decided there were other opportunities in New York
and he wasn't interested in continuing anything with Australia, and
somehow, amid all the heartbreak and the sense of the world
falling apart, the daf seemed like one of the few constants in my life,
so I just kept going. And in many ways it has turned into the most
rewarding and fulfilling part of my day. It is strange, but the daily
chance to really stretch and use my mind in a Jewish context (and not
just in the secular context that my work as a lawyer requires) has made me
feel much more unified and whole than I have since i started University
and made the split between my mind (alive and challenged in a secular
context, wandering freely from idea to idea) and my
heart/spirit/actions that were enmeshed in the daled amos of the halacha.
Somehow the fact that i top and tail a day spent analysing and
considering secular legal principles with a chance to really use my mind
in a Jewish context (and I do find the tapes challenging, even though
I have to let a lot of questions go - you really do skate over the
surface a lot), brings the two together and integrates my personality
(although at times it tends to make my work seem very colourless in
comparison, and feeds this ache to throw work away entirely and go off
and learn full time, which is not a very practical fantasy I admit).
But still, i am very ambivalent about the concept of a siyum. The last
time/only other time when i could have made a siyum, at the end of Baba
Metzia, I was still hoping that at least he would phone, and when he
didn't I just crawled into bed and cried myself to sleep. So at base i
guess I am wondering whether it is OK to pretend that i didn't notice
this one, and just go straight onto Sanhedrin (but while i am doing that,
I might as well learn something about what the concept of siyum entails).
Regards
Chana
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From: Ed Bruckstein <bruckstn@...>
Date: Thu, 23 Mar 1995 09:40:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Siyumim Erev Pesach
One does not need a minyan for a siyum. One does not even have to hear
the siyum. One needs only to be invited to attend the meal of a M'Sayem
(the individual making the Siyum) which is a Seudas Mitzva.
Hence, if the poster of the original question can get someone who is
ready to make a siyum (e.g., someone learning Daf Yomi Bava Basra) to
wake up before you leave to the airport and have him finish the Mesechta
(tractate), you may join in his meal and avoid the fast.
I've heard about listening to siyumim over the phone or the telephone,
but that's not an actual voice, and you're not sharing in the M'sayem's
Seuda (meal).
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From: <adina@...> (Adina B. Sherer)
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 95 23:28:37 IST
Subject: Re: Siyyum and Loopholes
There's still time! Horayos is only fourteen blatt - at a blatt a day
you could finish it before Pesach! Another possibility is Megilla, which
although it's about 32 blatt has lots of great Aggadita which goes
fairly quickly.
-- Carl Sherer (I can empathize with you....).
Adina and Carl Sherer You can reach us both at: <adina@...>
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From: <fenster@...> (Yaacov Fenster)
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 1995 12:01:54 -0500
Subject: Re: Siyyum and loopholes
> >From: J. Bailey <jbailey@...>
> I'm not a proponent of what have be called here "halachik loopholes", but
> I sort of need to utilize one soon. I'm a b'chor, and usually attend a
> siyum erev pesach to absolve myself of the fasting requirement (this is a
> hypocritical act, as it is the one I usually cite when referring to the
> ridiculous "outs" we have; if Hashem wanted us to fast, it takes some
> chutzpah for us to try to avoid the commemoration. But I digress...)
> Anyway, this year I have a 6:30 am flight Friday morning from NY to CA,
> and there is no way to find 10 men for a siyum. Are there any other ways
> to get out of fasting, perhaps something about fasting on a Friday? As
> long as I have somehow accepted the premise of these loopholes, I'm open
> to pretty much anything legitimate.
Why not start learning a "Masechet" now and finish it on the flight ?
While you may not have the "Berov Am Hadrat Melech" (A king is honored
with many people) with a quorum, but you still have the festive meal in
honor of finishing the "Masechet" which is the main point of this
"loophole".
% Yaacov Fenster (603)-881-1154 DTN 381-1154
% <y.fenster@...> fenster@world.std.com
% <fenster@...> Yaacov.Fenster@zko.mts.dec.com
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From: Richard Friedman <RF@...>
Date: 22 Mar 1995 14:17:14 GMT
Subject: Siyyum without minyan
Jay Bailey asked (MJ 18:94) about the problem of having a siyyum
b'chorim when he could not arrange to be with a minyan. Does one need a
minyan in order to have a siyyum? If not, might the solution be to
arrange to complete study of a text appropriate to be observed with a
siyyum? My understanding is that there are opinions that one can do
this not only over a tractate of Gemara, or an order of Mishna, but also
over a book of Tanach, or even a tractate of Mishna.
Richard Friedman
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End of Volume 19 Issue 3
